The Twinkie Defense
I’m posting this on metblogs rather than the WoW forum because the crowd here seems pretty open-minded, and there’s something I’ve been planning to do for a while– take on the indefensible position of justifying Twinks.
I’d like to take this forum to clear up some common misconceptions about twinks, and maybe give y’all some insight into what makes us Twink. Who knows? Maybe I’ll get a few of you to try your hand at it.
Common misconceptions about Twinks
- Twinking is illegal/godmodding/hacking.
Blizzard posters on the forum have clarified that twinking, though unforeseen by their developers, is not against the TOS of the game and does not involve hacking of any kind. In fact, on the WoW forums, Drysc has gone far enough to describe twinking as an unintended “metagame”, which I think is a very good description of the way in which twinks currently enjoy the game. Despite this, I’m surprised how many forum posters group twinks in the same category. As for myself, given my programming and analytical background, a large part of the appeal of twinking for me lies in its “problem-solving” nature. Given the restrictive XP cap and other such criteria, acquiring the right gear for a level 29 toon is more difficult and requires more cooperation and creativity than you might think. Luckily my guild is a fantastic resource for this information, and the guild veterans are eager to help new players. - Twinking is wrong because the players haven’t earned their own gear.
The most common defense of twinks given is “I earned this money on my main, I can spend it how I want.” While this is definitely true, I think that most people would be surprised how many twinks in our guild are actually self-made, that is, they have no high-level characters on our server. In fact, our guild master has no characters above level 35. He formed our BG guild when he had spent a couple months with the PVE grind and found no pleasure in it at all; he would probably have quit WoW right then if battlegrounds had not been released and he hadn’t fallen in love with the strategy and pace of Warsong Gulch. Since then, he has bought uber gear and enchants, but not by farming with a high level toon, but merely by playing the Auction House very well and building himself a respectable fortune. I myself began twinking my 29 druid when my main was only level 49. Most classes can do quite well in the battlegrounds without the expensive enchantments. - Twinking destroys the game for casual BGers.
While coming up against a 10 man twink premade may be frustrating, I think that the disparity between casual 29 players and twink 29 players is far less than casual 60 players and raiding tier 3 60 players. In fact, a player that just wants to engage in Battlegrounds and PVP is going to have a much easier time getting competitive 29 gear than he is getting epic 60 drops. While many twinks do want to get Librams/Enchants to maximize their gear, which they are proud of, these enchantments are by no means necessary to compete well in the 29 bracket. I for one, can’t afford any enchants on my gear other than +7 stam to bracers and armor kits right now, and I’m one of the best flagrunning druids in my guild. Which leads to the last common misconception: - Twinks are just out to roll PUGs
This is the one point that is hardest to explain to someone who is not in a twink guild. Most Twinks in my guild are already Sergeant (the highest rank available at 29), and revered with both WSG and AB; individual BG victories are not improving our characters anymore, and we are just as bored rolling PUGs as you are being rolled. The main motivation in playing our character every night is to get into some good 10 on 10 PVP games against other guilds in our battlegroup. The new Battleground queueing policies that Blizzard has dropped hints about should hopefully solve the problem by matching premades against premades; this change will be welcomed both by PUGs and twink premades alike.
So, if any of the above sounds interesting to you- try it out! Rolling a twink is not really that expensive or time consuming to start with. You can level a twink to 29 in just a few weeks and outfit him with BOP boss droppings and Quest rewards for pretty cheap; find the predominant twink guild for your faction on your server, and get them to invite you to their BG raid. I think you’ll find that the Twink “metagame” is a lot less time-consuming and demanding than the high level PVP and PVE games, but still provides some great strategy games and a strong community and competitive spirit among guilds. Best of all, no one is “honor farming”, as honor depreciation means nothing to us, no one bitches about being on-time, and no-one in my guild knows how to spell “DKP”.
And if after all this, you still hate twinks, you can come find my 29 twink Druid, Fleckso, a proud member of <Beyond Defeat> on Dragonmaw and kick his ass. Or at least you can try…
Excellent post!
I am definitely going to try this out, you’ve intrigued me.
Nicely written, but one point here if you: “can’t afford any enchants on my gear other than +7 stam to bracers and armor kits right now,” then you, my friend, are not a twink. As a 300 enchanter, Twinks are my income, though I don’t have one myself and trust me, when a real twink shows up, it’s 6 or 7 high end enchants and nothing else.
Just to add conversation though, I do actually think that Twinks do ruin the fun for non-twink BG’ers. I think it’s good that Blizz are looking at gear-rating PvP competition, it needs it.
I think you’ll find that the main complaint about twinks is that because of them, if you don’t twink your sub-60 you might as well give up on PvP. Now, there are some very talented people that are able to kick a poorly played twink’s arse up and down Arathi Basin, but for those of us with limited time just trying to have fun, twinks write-off a fair amount of content.
Anyway, we’ll see the death of twinks (and then, OMG people will have to learn to play that lvl 19 instead twinking it!) when blizzard put levels on enchants. Of course, this won’t stop people buying nice equipment, but there are so few great items at low levels, it won’t really matter.
I have no problem with twinks…I have one of my own. For me, it is a game-within-a-game. Remember the origin of the term: a young person with a lifestyle and possessions beyond his means, paid for by a (generally) older “admirer”. We all do it to an extent. Who rolls an alt without fitting them out with bags and some gold, funded by your main? No one.
Yes, it does make PvP at lower levels tough, especially in that 10-19 range. Which is why I levelled mine out of there, and will stop her at 29. I guess you couldn’t really call mine a twink, though, since I’ve not paid for Crusdader enchants and so on…and won’t.
I won’t have a problem with ‘twinking’ once enchants and such are limited by level range.
I don’t have a problem with buying the best BoE gear you can in the AH or questing to get the best BoP gear, but when you have a level 19 character with a Crusader enchant on their weapon it creates a completely unbalanced situation between the well-funded twink and someone who happens to want to do some PvP while they are levelling their character. The low level battlegrounds are pretty much unplayable for a casual PvPer as a result.
“Twinking destroys the game for casual BGers.”
Yes. Yes it does.
“I think that the disparity between casual 29 players and twink 29 players is far less than casual 60 players and raiding tier 3 60 players.”
And also far less than that between casual 11 players and twink 19 players. Moreover, twinking in the lowest-level battleground bracket ensures that many first-time players’ exprience of battlegrounds is one of being steamrollered. Abandoning PvP entirely is an understandable reaction for a casual player; the bad drives out the good. Twinking largely eliminates the rationale behind level-brackets for battlegrounds; you might as well take your 60 and go ganking in the lowest contested zones, for all the challenge non-twinks will present to you.
Level limitations on enchantments will go a long way towards fixing this fundamental flaw in WoW, but until they come along “twink” is a synonym for “bully”.
If you only have 2 enchants you’re not a twink, not by a long shot. If you don’t drink potions of free action like water you’re also not a twink. You’re just a guy who bought some greens and boe blues, which is most alts. Maybe you have twink friends, but you’re not one.
In my battlegroup, twinks are much better known for judicious use of /spit as well and camping GYs and greifing. And after experiencing it so many times, that’s pretty much my definition of twink: a player who wants to grief others. It’s not about winning, it’s about greifing. All the players say “oh no we want to find good geared players to play against” well if you’re only finding lesser geared players, and you truly want a challenge as you claim, then why not lower the quality of your own gear to match your opponent to level the field and compete on skill? That’s what twinks claim they want, but no they won’t do that.
And that’s what ruins the fun for casuals. Casuals can compete in all the rest of the game, but suddenly if they don’t spend 100 gold at least and leave their guild to join a twink guild, forget it. You not only get rolled, you get spit on and greifed by little children.
My respect for twinks is the same for premades who refuse to fight other premades – not much.
In my 52 levels of raising a Orc Shaman, I never had problems with twinks.
I noticed it was always some lame Alliance noobs who, btw, still didn’t know how to fight together as a team and thus still got steamrolled 3-0 in WSG.
Twink all you want but:
Teamwork + Skill > Gear + HKs
I think that a few commenters did not really read my post, but I’ll try to address the ones that actually did.
1) First of all, some people are under the impression that blizz is going to remove all the high level enchants from twinks when the expansion happens. While I agree that level restrictions are a good idea; blizz has said that the changes will only affect new enchants, which means 19 rogues will still be able to have crusader.
2) A few people have said that I am not actually a twink because I don’t have these high level enchants. I guess what I want to clarify though, is that this is only because I can’t yet afford them. I am saving up money to get higher level enchants on my gear– and what’s wrong with that? If I enjoy playing my character at level 29, what is wrong with me getting the best enchantment possible for my character? Where is this line drawn? Should I intentionally not give my character the best gear/enchantments available so as not to cross this invisible line?
I also never said I wouldn’t use Free Action Pots. I don’t see how the combination of Oily Blackmouth (easily fishable by a level 29), and Stranglekelp (easily herbable by a level 29), would be somehow unfair. I actually don’t use that many pots during battle (as they’re undrinkable in feral form), and I don’t often have time to do it, but if I was a twink rogue, and a FAP would help my team win a BG, I’d definitely chug it, no problem.
Hmm. When an author says that people did not read, or understand his post, it’s time for that author to wonder if their post is badly written, or miscomunicative.
I liked the commentor who said Twink=Bully, very true. When the only way you can win is by overpowering, instead of tactics and talent, it’s very true.
I agree with the Twink=Bully comment. I had a level 13 rogue, I play on a PVE server and wanted to see what PVP was all about… After waiting in the queue I was very quickly WTFPWND by a twink. Now I don’t even bother with low level battle grounds anymore. There’s no way I can go against a level 19 that’s dropped 1000g in blue gear and green glowing weapons. I almost wish there was twink only BG’s, and let regular players have a more evenly matched arena.
Geo, Blizz is supposedly implementing a “BG-matching” system like what you are suggesting in the BC patch. Hopefully this will resolve issues for both un-twinked and twinked players alike.
“If I enjoy playing my character at level 29, what is wrong with me getting the best enchantment possible for my character? Where is this line drawn? Should I intentionally not give my character the best gear/enchantments available so as not to cross this invisible line?”
As long as Blizzard doesn’t level restrict enchants then there is no line – you can buy the best you can afford.
However, don’t pretend this isn’t IMBA – being able to put level 300 enchants on your gear and being able to consume high level pots will make you considerably more powerful than a “casual” BG player. This, as I said before, makes BGs unplayable for a low level casual – they are going to get steamrolled.
So, go ahead and twink your BG alts to the max. I understand that it is intersting and challenging (min/maxing, getting better gear, etc.) and that you enjoy it, and Blizz clearly allows it. However, also understand that those of us who are “casual” BG players resent what this has done to the low level BGs, which is why you’ll see some resentment here and on the official forums. Note that it is Blizz’s fault in the first place for creating the IMBA (how can they have level restrictions in place for buffs but not for enchants?), but since you personify it you’re going to hear about it :)
Sorry, OT, I know, noob alert, but what is “IMBA”. I see it all the time on forums, but when I google it I get some Biking association.
I’m also all for level restrictions on new enchants (it saves me money when I’m keeping up with the Joneses, heh). Also, as I’m kind of bored with endgame content right now, I may not even get the expansion, as it doesn’t seem to affect twinks at all (maybe there will be some kickass low level socketable items or something…).
Well as far as “not reading” apparntly you didn’t read our posts either. We never said twinking was “unfair” or that there was anything “wrong” with it. We just claim it ruins the fun for 90% of the other players. Not because they win, after all I don’t complian at 60 about getting rolled by premades it’s part of the program they are trying to win and maximize honor. But we don’t like twinks because their whole purpose is to ruin the fun of others.
It’s not about beating a challenge, if it were they’d use regular gear or twill, or they’d get their good gear and go to their server forums and arrange with compting guiilds “let’s both sign up for WSG instance 9 at 9am and fight for a few matches”. But twink guilds don’t do that. They CLAIM they just want a challenge, and no there’s nothing wrong with that. But their actions belie their claims.
wowwiki always knows more than google :)
http://www.wowwiki.com/Imba
If you’re bored with the current endgame the good news is that TBC will have new endgame. PvE nirvana ;)
Ohhhh. I feel like a moron. I just always saw it in all caps so I assumed it was some kind of acronym. Thanks.
My justification for twinking: I pay $15 a month for the game, I’ll do what I damn well please in the game.
It’s always such a two sided argument. On the one hand, it spoils the BGs for a hell of a lot of people. On the other hand, DROOD has an entirely vaild point. We pay for this, so should be able to exercise that right, in whatever we can that isn’t against the TOS.
Hindsight and everything, Blizzard should’ve built in level requirements for everything inc. enchants, from day one to at least even things out slightly.
I haven’t read all the posts to this point, so please pardon if this is a repeat.
These arguments are not new, nor do they originate with me…
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IMO, twinking is not — at the root — a player problem.
It’s a game design problem.
Any good player will obtain the best gear they can! It is one important point of the game — who would raid it there wasn’t awesome BOP gear to be had? I fully expect my level 57 main to get pwned in AV by geared-out 60s — but I’m paying my dues, and I’ll get my shots in after I’ve earned my way up the ladder.
Let’s keep the solution very simple:
Enchants need level requirements, just as gear and consumables have a level requirement.
Other gear enhancements — even simple leather kits — have a level requirement!
You say my 19 horde rogue can dual-wield weaps with Fiery? Cool!! My 60 will mail him the gold. There’s probably an enchanter at the Org bank…
It’s a no-brainer.
Why Blizzard would let this glaring error slide by — given their endless talk about (lip service to?) “game balance” and “game economy” — is entirely beyond me.
It’s unfortunate that in a very well-designed game (overall) such a glaring problem persists. I haven’t taken a close look at the BC expansion, but Blizzard really should take the opportunity to fix their design — and be consistent — by extending level restrictions to enchants. (But I don’t really care if they don’t — I just level up past 29 to PvP.)
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Additionally, Blizzard recently exacerbated the problem with PvP Battlegroups — servers grouped together for PvP.
How, you ask?
Because the twink enchants are much harder to come by on the newer servers. Twinking — or even just gearing up your 60 — is much harder on a server where the character pool is not mature enough to have the top enchants at all.
If you’re stuck in that situation, you can fix it, too.
Just find a ‘mature’ server, browse to the Blizzard character transfer page, and get out your credit card…
I’ve read everything now. I’ll stand by my post above and add a bit.
I would like to point out that a true twink does not actually buy his own gear.
Again, that’s not rocket science, its simple math.
Farming will result in encounters will result in XP will result in leveling.
And BOE blue twink gear will set you back at least 10g (crafted), and 50+g (world drops) per slot. True twink enchants (300s) go for way higher than ‘just’ 50g on my server. A 19 or 29 simply cannot obtain that kind of gold without external help.
One who has not spent that kind of gold is not a twink yet. They may be wishing for that BMW, but they’re still driving a Ford with an option package :)
Whether the ‘farmer’ is a 35 or a 60 is a matter of preference — I would prefer a 60 because farming is easy with a 60 and can get some higher-level mats and possibly even good twink blue drops, too. A 60 can craft twink items from mats they’ve farmed. A 60 can even make some cash on the side by charging to escort twink-wannabees through WC (bring your leatherworker), SFK, and the Deadmines!
(On the other hand, leveling to 60 is not easy, but that’s another issue.)
And as others have pointed out, simply gearing in the best instance drops for level 19 or 29 gear is not really twinking either — if it is, then every character I have is twinked in several slots!
No, twinking is probably best defined by skill 300 enchants and pricey BOE blues for levels 19 and 29.
And, from what I’m seeing, there is a “twink attitude” too. Glad I missed that; seems that jumping into PvP after level 29 saved me a LOT of unnecessary heartburn.
As for me, I’m seeing more and more that the game begins at 60.
So the 19 / 29 twink “problem” is my gain — a nice market for my 60.
BTW – Anyone need a Deviate Scale Belt…?
:P
Doeg-
I think I may be confusing the terminology. When I say “twinks” I guess I mean people who intentionally keep characters at low level, so not necessarily people who fund their low level character with a high level alt.
And actually, a 29 can make enough money to fund high level enchants without getting any XP. Most of the people, myself included, I know who fund twinks actually don’t do it through traditional farming, but actually do it by gaming the Auction House. I find it’s much easier to scan the AH twice a day for deals than to farm Orbs or shards. Like I said, I’m pretty bored with the PVE content, so just sticking to the AH for profit give me more time to do Battlegrounds. While normally I only make a few gold a day by trading on low level high-demand materials, I occassionally make big bucks on undervalued blue items.
The other day I picked up a Zealot Blade on the auction house for 6g, and turned it around it 24 hours for 22g right there!
You’re absolutely right that younger server twinks get screwed by the Battleground system; in one battleground, some people from another server trying to organize a twink guild said that righteous orbs were going for over 40g on their server. On my server their rarely over 20. The same complaint was raised about imbalance in battlegroups when they first started– people on PVP servers were irritated that they would be fighting against PVE players. However, the organization of battlegroups is apparently dictated by the location of the physical server hardware, and wasn’t something that could be consciously mixed and matched for PVP/PVE old/new balance…
You’re right about the AH — that is definitely a way that a lower-level can make money without gaining XP. I didn’t think of it, which is funny because I have also bought-low-sold-high on the AH, and have ‘cornered the market’ on one particular crafted item that nets me a regular 2g per sale (I sell about two of the item every week); when it’s offered at much less than 2g I buy it and re-list it at the price I’ve fixed.
I see that we have a mismatch in our “twink” definitions:
– I see “twink” as one who has a high level of investment in a character, particularly in high-skill enchants and pricey blue BOE world drops,
– You’ve defined “twink” along the lines of staying at a particular level.
That explains some of the miscommunication on this thread.
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Regarding the comment in a previous post to the effect that, “It’s my $15 and I’ll do what I want”…
That’s true. Kind of.
You’ll do whatever you want… that Blizz allows.
Your 19 warrior twink will have Fiery if he wants it… but not The Unstoppable Force or rugged leather kits or superior healing potions.
If Blizz puts a “level 45” requirement on Fiery in the next patch, then “whatever you want” will no longer include Fiery on your weap.
I levelled my character to 60 several months ago, I had been a great fan of battlegrounds up until then. Battlegrounds was really the whole joy of the game.
Entering level battleground 60 without an organised pvp-group was impossible. You don’t just meet a couple of twinked 19’s, but you meet an organised premade of 10 people with tier 1 or 2 – and you don’t stand a chance. Subsequently I quickly I abandoned my lvl 60 character and used the money to fund a twink instead.
My opinion is that all levels are twinked. As a casual player at lvl 35 you still won’t stand a chance if you meet twinked lvl 39’s.
I think that level 60 is the problem. For a casual player level 60 offers absolutely nothing. Instances last forever and the differences in gear and teaming in battlegrounds are enormous.
And now as most players have been at level 60 most people don’t do all the quests to get there anymore. Save everybody is doing level 60 raids, hence instancing for a low level is almost impossible.
Consequently instancing before lvl 60 is very difficult, and at lvl 60 bg’s and instances are too difficult and time consuming for a casual player. For the casual player a twink lvl 19 or 29 is the only way you can have some fun teaming up with other people.
I am very curious to see how the enchantment level restrictions are going to work. Many people have used loads of gold enchanting their twinks equipment, are they simply going to strip us of these enchantments?
Swifte, Doeg- Just want to clarify the “enchantment level restriction” coming up in BC. The level restriction on items to be enchanted will only affect NEW enchantments introduced from now on. Fiery, Crusader, Lifestealing, +55 Healing, etc. will all be still available to 29 twinks.
It simply wouldn’t be fair if they started adding the level restrictions, as new Twinks would have no hope of ever matching the existing twinks, gear-wise, and it would just become more “IMBA”.
You can see the new restrictions (as they stand on the current beta test server) at http://www.thottbot.com/beta?t=Enchanting. All new enchants require that the item level be level 35.
Thanks for the info Bendyr :)
Btw. the . at the end of the link made it not work, just so people are aware that they have to delete the dot…